(c) Caniatâd
Tybiedig ar gyfer Rhoi Organau |
Presumed
Consent to Organ Donation |
Dai Lloyd AM - Questions to the Minister
C9 David Lloyd: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog ddatganiad am ganiatâd tybiedig
ar gyfer rhoi
organau? OAQ(3)1303(FM)
Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym yn gobeithio cyflawni mwy na chyfraith newydd yn
unig.
Byddai creu cyfraith newydd i sefydlu'r egwyddor o ragdybio caniatâd
yn gwneud
hanner y job yn unig. Yr ydym hefyd yn ceisio newid y diwylliant ymhlith y
bobl, sef
'Sea change in public attitude' ys dywed y Sais. Dyna sy'n angenrheidiol os
yw'r
gyfraith hon i weithio.
Q9 David Lloyd: Will the First Minister make a statement on presumed consent
to organ donation? OAQ(3)1303(FM)
The First Minister: We are looking at achieving more than just passing a
new law.
Creating a new law setting out the principle of presumed consent would do
only half the
job. We are also trying to change the culture and public attitudes. A 'sea
change in public
attitude', as we say, is essential if this new law is to work.
David Lloyd: Mae arolygon yn dangos bod rhyw 90 y cant o bobl yn cytuno â'r
syniad o
roi eu horganau wedi iddynt farw, ond dim ond rhyw 22 y cant o bobl sydd wedi
cofrestru o dan y system bresennol o ddewis i gofrestru. Mae pobl sydd ar
restr aros am
aren yn marw. Felly, onid ydych yn cytuno'n sylfaenol y byddai system o ganiatâd
tybiedig-hynny yw, system o eithrio'ch hun os nad ydych yn cytuno-yn adlewyrchiad
tecach o ewyllys y bobl na'r system bresennol?
David Lloyd: Surveys show that some 90 percent of people agree with the idea
of donating
their organs after their death but, under the current system of opting in,
only some 22 per
cent of people have registered. People on the waiting list for a kidney are
dying. Therefore,
do you not fundamentally agree that a system of presumed consent-that is,
a system of
opting out if you do not consent-would be a fairer reflection of the will
of the people than
the current system is?
Y Prif Weinidog: Credaf y byddai'n adlewyrchiad tecach, a dweud y gwir. Tra
ydym yn aros am newid yn y gyfraith ac mewn diwylliant, yr ydym yn bwrw ymlaen
yn llwyddiannus dros ben gyda'r gofrestr sy'n dangos eich bod eisoes wedi
rhoi eich
caniatâd. Yr wyf wedi cofrestru, ac yr wyf yn cario'r cerdyn yn fy mhoced
bob amser.
Dylem annog pawb i wneud hynny. Yr ydym newydd gyrraedd y garreg filltir o
gael
800,000 o bobl yng Nghymru ar y gofrestr, a chredaf mai James Herbert, myfyriwr
offthalmoleg ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd, oedd yr wythcanmilfed person i gofrestru.
Yr
ydym yn bwrw ymlaen at 1 filiwn yn awr, tra ydym hefyd yn anelu at ddeddfwriaeth
newydd.
The First Minister: I think that it would be a fairer reflection, to be honest.
While we wait
for a change in the law and in people's attitudes, we are making extremely
good
progress with the register that proves that you have given your prior consent
to organ
donation. I have registered, and I always carry the donor card in my pocket.
We should be encouraging everyone to do that. We have just reached the milestone
of getting
800,000 people in Wales on the register. I think that James Herbert, an ophthalmology
student at
Cardiff University, was the eight-hundred thousandth person to register. We
are forging
ahead towards the 1 million mark now, while also aiming for the new legislation.
Jonathan Morgan: First Minister, you will know that the Health, Wellbeing
and Local
Government Committee did a very in-depth review of presumed consent and the
whole
framework for organ donation. As a preface to my remarks, I place on record
my thanks
to every member of the committee for the considerable amount of work that
was put in
on a tricky and complicated subject. Bearing in mind that the committee did
not rule out-
and it certainly did not rule in-the need to move towards a legislative competence
Order, is it now Government policy that we have a legislative competence Order
and that
we move towards that over the next 12 months?
Jonathan Morgan: Brif Weinidog, gwyddoch i'r Pwyllgor Iechyd, lles a
Llywodraeth Leol gynnal adolygiad manwl ar ganiatâd tybiedig a'r holl
fframwaith ar gyfer
rhoi organau. Fel rhagymadrodd i'm sylwadau, dymunaf gofnodi fy niolch i bob
aelod o'r pwyllgor am y gwaith sylweddol a wnaethpwyd ar bwnc dyrys a chymhleth.
A
chofio bod y pwyllgor heb benderfynu'r nail ffordd na'r llall-sef nad oedd
angen nac
ychwaith bod angen-symud tuag at Orchymyn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol, ai
polisi'r Llywodraeth bellach yw ein bod yn cael Gorchymyn cymhwysedd
deddfwriaethol a'n bod yn symud tuag at hynny yn ystod y 12 mis nesaf?
The First Minister: Yes. We will pursue legislative competence for presumed
consent
to reinforce the progress that has already been made, including reaching the
milestone
of having 800,000 people on the register, when only 3 million people live
in Wales.
There are probably 2.25 million adults in Wales-and I presume that it is only
adults
who can consent to this-which means that about 40 per cent of adults have
given their
consent. We are taking the twin-track approach of trying to achieve a sea
change in
public attitude side by side with securing a change in the law. The law will
not work
without that sea change in public attitude.
Y Prif Weinidog: Ie. Byddwn yn mynd ar drywydd cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol
ar
gyfer caniatâd tybiedig er mwyn atgyfnerthu'r cynnydd sydd wedi'i wneud
eisoes, gan gynnwys cyrraedd y garreg filltir o gael 800,000 o bobl ar y gofrestr,
pan nad
oes ond 3 miliwn o bobl yn byw yng Nghymru. Mae'n si?r bod 2.25 miliwn o
oedolion yng Nghymru-a thybiaf mai dim ond oedolion a gaiff roi eu caniatâd
ar gyfer
hyn-sy'n golygu bod oddeutu 40 y cant o oedolion wedi rhoi eu caniatâd.
Yr ydym yn
dilyn y trywydd dau lwybr, sef ceisio sicrhau newid mawr yn agwedd y cyhoedd
ochr yn
ochr â sicrhau newid yn y gyfraith. Ni wnaiff y gyfraith honno weithio
heb newid mawr
hwnnw yn agwedd y cyhoedd.
Jenny Randerson: First Minister, I am delighted that your Government and
the
Minister for Health and Social Services decided to look so closely at the
evidence that
the committee heard at some considerable length, and decided to take such
a bold
interpretation of it and then to pursue a public consultation. Whatever our
views on organ
donation, I think that we would all agree that the public consultation is
fundamental.
However, given that well over 400 people are on the waiting list for organ
transplantation in
Wales, I am concerned-and I could probably be forgiven for it-that time is
of
the essence. I would be grateful if you could give us some outline of the
anticipated
timetable for the public consultation before you intend to press ahead with
an LCO, if
that is what you eventually decide to do.
Jenny Randerson: Brif Weinidog, yr wyf wrth fy modd bod eich Llywodraeth a'r
Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wedi penderfynu edrych mor
ofalus ar y dystiolaeth a glywodd y pwyllgor dros gyfnod maeth, a'u bod wedi
penderfynu
ei dehongli mewn ffordd mor feiddgar ac yna fynd ar drywydd ymgynghori â'r
cyhoedd.
Beth bynnag yw ein barn am roi organau, credaf y byddem i gyd yn cytuno bod
ymgynghori â'r cyhoedd yn hollbwysig. Fodd bynnag, a chofio bod ymhell
dros 400 o bobl
ar y rhestr aros ar gyfer trawsblannu organ yng Nghymru, yr wyf yn poeni-ac
mae'n
debyg y gellid maddau imi am hynny-bod amser yn brin. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar
pe
gallech roi rhyw syniad inni am yr amserlen a ragwelir ar gyfer ymgynghori
â'r cyhoedd
cyn ichi fwriadu bwrw ymlaen â'r Gorchymyn, os mai hynny fydd eich
penderfyniad yn y pen draw.
The First Minister: I do not have a timetable here. We pay tribute to the
committee's
work. However, we did not come to the same conclusion. That demonstrates the
differences
of view that you can have between the legislative and executive branches of
the
Assembly. We believe that the use of community health councils is critical
to try to
secure public views and public involvement. There are several options open
to us,
including the soft and hard systems of presumed consent, where you do or do
not
take account of relatives' views as well as the
wishes of the deceased person. The consultation will be about that kind of
issue,
to see whether we can get the maximum number of people on board, while also
trying
to reach 1 million people, as that would mean that almost half of all adults
in Wales were
registered, and we would commend that. The best thing of all would be if everyone
was on
the register, because then we would not need a new law. However, let us face
it: that is not
going to happen.
Y Prif Weinidog: Nid oes gennyf amserlen yma. Rhoddwn deyrnged i waith y
pwyllgor.
Fodd bynnag, nid yr un oedd ein casgliad ni. Mae hynny'n dangos y gwahaniaeth
barn y
gallwch ei gael rhwng cangen deddfu a changen gweithredu'r Cynulliad. Credwn
ei
bod yn hanfodol defnyddio cynghorau iechyd cymuned er mwyn ceisio sicrhau
barn y
cyhoedd a'u cynnwys. Mae sawl dewis ar gael inni, gan gynnwys y system caniatâd
tybiedig lac a'r system gaeth. Mae'r naill yn ystyried barn y perthnasau yn
ogystal â
dymuniadau'r ymadawedig ac nid yw'r llall yn gwneud hynny. Dyna'r math o beth
y
bydd yr ymgynghori'n ymwneud ag ef, er mwyn gweld a allwn gael cefnogaeth
y nifer
mwyaf posibl, gan geisio ar yr un pryd, gyrraedd 1 miliwn o bobl, gan y golygai
hynny fod bron hanner holl oedolion Cymru wedi'u cofrestru, a byddem yn cymeradwyo
hynny. Y peth gorau un a fyddai petai pawb ar y gofrestr, oherwydd wedyn,
ni fyddai
angen cyfraith newydd arnom. Fodd bynnag, gadewch inni wynebu'r peth: nid
yw hynny'n
mynd i ddigwydd.
Y Llywydd: Diolch yn fawr i'r Prif Weinidog am ateb ei holl gwestiynau.
The Presiding Officer: I thank the First Minister for answering all his questions.
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